Should Christians Vote For Obama? March 3, 2008
Posted by peak9 in Christianity, Politics.Tags: Abortion, Art, barack obama, blog, blogging, Christianity, Culture, daily, gay pride, hillary clinton, Homosexuality, life, News, Politics, Random, Religion
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Barack Obama is a Christian. I will take his word on this, but his policies conflict with his faith. As a Christian, I cannot see anything appealing from Obama. I would like to hear from Christians supporting Obama. What are your reasons? What does Obama say that makes you want to vote for him? Does it matter?
While you think about this, check out Rev. Rob Schenck’s article, Barack Obama: Sheep Or Goat?, which analyzes Obama’s Christian background.
Related Posts:
I honestly don’t know. I didn’t know he was a Christian, I thought he was muslim…
This is a common perception. My wife thinks he is Muslim. He has publicly professed his faith in Christ many times. In my post, Obama The Pro-Choice Christian, there is a YouTube video showing part of an interview where he says he is a Christian. I cannot dispute this, only God can. However, I find his policies contradictory to his faith.
I have no problem believing that he believes he is a Christian. Only God can judge a man’s heart.
But, we can know about his core beliefs, his world view, his ideas on Americanism, his political plans for this country. These do not add up to being theologically sound with the Historic Christian Faith.
You might want to check some of the Christians chiming in at my blog on this subject. Many remarked after your last comment on my post, “Obama Praised by Farrakhan at: http://riggword.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/obama-praised-by-farrakhan/#comment-192
I would love to hear your responses to these comments.
Have you ever listened to Oprah’s version of being a “Christian”?
I even heard Anthony Robbins say that he was a Christian at a Date with Destiny event.
Liberal Theology begets Liberal politicians who claim to be Christians.
(i.e. Hillary and Bill, and Catholic Ted Kennedy )
Good comments Rigg. This issue is gaining steam as I am currently in a debate about this subject on another blog where Christians are supporting Obama. I don’t feel his policies align with God’s Word. I too believe that no one can say whether or not Obama is a Christian. I am going to take his word on it.
I have seen a video of Oprah talking about the multiple pathways to God, but that is all I have seen. You are right about “liberal theology.” Obama is taking what he wants from Scripture and discarding what he doesn’t. He is a Thomas Jefferson Christian.
Obviously I make my case here.
:)
No one seems to care if Christians vote for Obama.
Like I said over at mudpuppy’s site, if a Christian makes a prayerful choice to vote for Obama, vote for Obama.
Anyone can call themselves a Christian, but that doesn’t make them a Christian! I can not judge Obama’s heart, but I am told by Jesus that I must judge the “fruit” of those who call themselves leaders. So he can say he’s a christian all he wants, but I ain’t falling for it and neither should any true Christian.
Grace and Peace,
Tim
Tim,
what is your definition of a “true christian?”
“You will know them by their fruit.” In other words if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and smells like a duck then it’s a duck.
What is your definition?
My Definition: Someone that has accepted Christ’s sacrifice and His Spirit lives in & through them.
I am not sure if the man is a believer, but I cannot judge people that choose to vote for him and think they are not “true christians.”
If His Spirit lives in and through them, then abortion is unacceptable. This has been Church teaching since the first century (Didache Part I:2). I don’t have to judge the heart - which isn’t my job anyway - I will, because I’m commanded to - judge the fruit of the persons life. If it is contrary to what the Spirit teaches in His word - how can they be “true Christians”? They can’t because it is contrary to the Word of God.
That is an acceptable definition you have; and as Christ makes us a new creation and the old passes away - the new comes. That means there is a change that is suppose to happen, there has to be evidence of the Spirit living in and through them.
Grace and Peace
Oh no he didn’t….
I’ll be back to respond.
For starters, what sin is greater? Abortion? Lying? Stealing? Cheating? Who are you voting for?
Did you vote for President Bush? Some people would argue that many innocent lives were taken because of the war while he was/is President.
“That means there is a change that is suppose to happen, there has to be evidence of the Spirit living in and through them.”
God is constantly growing us in grace, He is the one that makes the changes as we abide in Him.
It’s getting hot in here. I will be back in the morning. I just got home from work.
Although lying, stealing and cheating can lead to more serious sin, what is more serious than murder; murder of the defenseless and weak, slaughter of ones who can not speak for themselves?
Some people argue about the war and innocent life, but really, how can they be compared?
Unborn babies didn’t hijack planes and kill thousands of innocent people in NYC.
Are you talking about those who signed up to to defend our country? Yes, I’m sad for their and their families loss, but isn’t that what they signed up for? Since there is evil in the world, I’m glad that we have men and women here not afraid to make the ultimate sacrifice for not only their country, but their fellow man. My point in that, was they knew what was coming….did that unborn child know what was about to happen to him/her?
You are correct to say that we continue to grow in grace and He does change us “AS WE ABIDE IN HIM.” What does that mean to you? That would mean conforming to His teaching, would it not? That means we must cooperate with His grace. We don’t just sit there twiddling our thumbs saying, “Ok God, you can change me anytime now….I’m wating.” We must be pro-active!
Since God is the Creator of life why don’t we conform to Him? Because of the reasons you listed…lying, stealing and cheating.
It all comes back to being our own God, instead of letting ourselves be conformed to His image, we try to conform Him to ours.
I would much rather stand before the most Holy and Mighty God and be judged for voting to defend our country and the lives of our citizens, than to be judged for voting to kill innocent babies who never got a chance for life.
You are totally missing the point! Does anyone else see what I am saying?!?!
Tim~ “Unborn babies didn’t hijack planes”Unborn babies didn’t hijack planes and kill thousands of innocent people…”
Are you saying an eye for an eye, that was King Hammurabi’s moral standards?
BTW I am not for abortion, but I am against self-righteousness.
Tim~ “Since God is the Creator of life why don’t we conform to Him? Because of the reasons you listed…lying, stealing and cheating.”
Nope. People don’t conform to him because they don’t know who they are in Christ, because there is so much condemnation coming from “believers…” They study scriptures to win arguments instead of to know Christ.
Tim~ “That would mean conforming to His teaching, would it not? That means we must cooperate with His grace. We don’t just sit there twiddling our thumbs saying, “Ok God, you can change me anytime now….I’m wating.” We must be pro-active!”
I use to think that way, too. But now I see it differently. We see what God is doing and we allow Him to work through us, we don’t take matters into out hand feeling like we always have to be doing something, or pro-active as you say, that’s where religion comes in, external works and self-righteousnesses as we pride ourselves in doing all the right things and pointing our fingers at the ones who aren’t on board with our agendas.
* our hands
I am going to jump in here, so forgive me for getting in the middle of this conversation. This is a good discussion. Criticism among Christians should be thought of as helpful. It causes one to reevaluate. It shouldn’t be taken personally. Self-righteousness is cannibalism. It is also believing one is morally better or on higher ground than someone else.
The criticism of Obama’s stance on abortion or anything else that looks contradictory to his faith is not about condemning the man. I don’t condemn Obama for his pro-choice belief, I just don’t agree with him and find it to be in conflict with God’s Word. I see his stance as an abuse of God given free will.
No one is perfect, including Obama. I wake up everyday knowing I will finish the day having sinned. Do I start the day wanting to sin? No. Do I start the day in support of sin (abortion). No, but I sin. I am no better than Obama nor anyone else.
What matters is God’s Word and his stance. Christians should always be striving to apply truth to their lives. We fall short as sinners, but our perspective on life should align with our faith. As sillyspring put it, we need to view life through God’s glasses.
Well Jeff, it is your blog after all…jump on in!
You make you case well, and I agree with what you say.
Selena,
An eye for an eye is a biblical precept. It was given to Israel as civil law, to discourage individual’s “getting even” with one another (vigilanteism). Leadership therefore has the right - ordained by God (Rom.13) to decide what course of action to take. So no, I should not live by this code as an individual.
If you are judging me to be self righteous, please point out to me where my comments do not comply to the Gospel - and only to my own agenda. I have been measuring Mr. Obama by his words to “THE WORD”, not his words by my words, thoughts or feelings.
You said, ” People don’t conform to him because they don’t know who they are in Christ, because there is so much condemnation coming from “believers…” They study scriptures to win arguments instead of to know Christ.”
That’s a cop out! Jesus states in John 16:13, “But when He, the Spirit of Truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth…”
People don’t know who they are in Christ, because they either don’t want to know or don’t care to know. Jesus makes His point when He says, “Whoever is not against us is for us.” This half-hearted liberal Christianity is not the Christianity Jesus speaks of. It’s an all or nothing faith, active and passive at the same time. Isn’t that what you see when you look at the cross, someone who gave His all, active and passive at the same time?
And as far as your comment, “that’s where religion comes in, external works and self-righteousnesses as we pride ourselves in doing all the right things and pointing our fingers at the ones who aren’t on board with our agendas.”
I would ask you to look up, I Tim.6:18, Titus 3:8,14, Js.2:26. For whether we like it or not, Jesus say we will be judged according to our works, and our willingness to forgive others.
Have you done away with religion because it’s the politically correct thing to do? Or maybe you are coming from the perseption that “Christianity isn’t a religion, it’s a relationship”? Well, if that is the case, you are right it is a relationship, but it is also a religion too. Religion is the way we worship and express ourselves to God as human beings. This is even more true in our Christian heritage, for we are able to have that personal relationship with God through Christ. But please, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Man may have made religion a bad word, but that doesn’t mean that religion is bad.
Peace and Grace in Christ,
Tim
Tim,
Just letting you know I read it…
Galatians 3:1-3
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
Tim,
I think the thing that really chapped my hide is this: “So he can say he’s a christian all he wants, but I ain’t falling for it and neither should any TRUE Christian.
But come to think of it, I am ok with your opinion, you are not my standard for living! And I, or any other Christian for that matter, really does not need your approval or validation on who is a TRUE Christian,etc. :-D
Blessings & Peace
The only “standard” I laid out was, what is already in the Bible. Please measure yourself by the Word of God. I never said you had to add up to my standard….never said that. If you want to make yourself feel better by disagreeing me that’s fine, but it’s not me you are disagreeing with….it’s God’s Word.
And the “law” Paul refered to in your Galatians passage, was the sacrificial “law”, not the ten commandments. So we should still “provoke one another to love and good works.” Heb. 10:24
Love and Understanding.
For years Christians have been indoctrinated with religious rites, customs, and cultures. These religious acts are all backed up by the word of the scriptures; however, they are not all backed up by the Spirit of Christ. The result of the religious acts creates self-righteous, pharisaical individuals that criticize and condemn others. With that in mind and with you being correct in “we will know them by their fruits,” criticizing and condemning fruits do not line up with the defined Fruit of the Spirit. Many times Christians window dress these destructive fruits with the right Christian lingo that sets up a false context to make the fruits “holy.” (Example - “Love and Understanding” does not correct multiple paragraphs of judgmental condemnation.)
One more thing, biblically speaking (not religious phrase speaking), there is no such animal as “sacrificial law.” “Sacrificial law” would be an oxymoron in jumbo shrimpical proportions. The law in Galatians is referring to the first five books outline the law.
My hubby joined the conversation, but he’s stuck in spam.
“If you want to make yourself feel better by disagreeing me that’s fine, but it’s not me you are disagreeing with….it’s God’s Word.”
God is the one who brings me my peace and validation :-D
Again,
Blessings & Peace
Did I just despam your husband?
Good morning, yeah his comment is up there, thanks! :-D
Peas in a pod…..You guys use scripture like your friend here:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=11991
Blessings :-D
Tim,
I know our view seems very crazy, The Pharisees were always trying to trip up Jesus with the law and they were very smug because they had a good grip on the law, they saw themselves as superior. Unfortunately and admittedly, I use to be the same way. And play the your- not- disagreeing -with- me-your- disagreeing- with-the Word-of-God card. I have already stated that I think abortion is wrong. My problem is when people self-righteously judge people on who is a “true Christian.” You cannot possibly know that. Like I stated, your opinion isn’t other believers standard. That’s when you dealt the “you’re not disagreeing with me, you’re disagreeing with God card. I don’t think you are seeing the superiority you have there. Christ is humble.
My husband is right, there is no such thing as a sacrificial law, Galatians 3:1-3. Here is our email address if you want to talk more about any of this. We are interested in what the sacrificial law is and where you are seeing that, we can even give you are cell number. parsleypatch1994@yahoo.com
My suggestion is this: Check out my list of The Best Switchfoot Bootlegs On YouTube and feel the power of Jesus through a rockin’ band of Christians from San Diego. This is completely off subject, but I created this post, so I can do this.
God Bless
This is what I stated in comment 11: ” I don’t have to judge the heart - which isn’t my job anyway - I will, because I’m commanded to - judge the fruit of the persons life.”
Accept that statement or not, I don’t need your validation either.
Yes, Christ is humble -but He confronted sin and ignorance with words like, “Brood of vipers” and such. I think He even whirled a whip around some moneychangers once.
Check out the Old Testament book Leviticus, it’s all about the sacrificial law…that is the law Christ came not to abolish but to fulfill, remember He is the “Lamb of God.” And speaking of the law, Jesus said (when asked) that the two greatest commandments were (to parsphrase) love God and love others…”On these two commandments depend the whole law and the Prophets.” Matt. 22:40.
Peak9, I watched one :-D
Speaking of brood of vipers, I just finished creating the shopping cart for my website. I make natural bath & body products and Mother’s Day will be here before you guys know it!
http://elohimsgarden.homestead.com/index.html
This discussion is a reminder of why there are so many divisions (denominations) within the church.
Tim, I understand your point of view on Obama. You aren’t judging Obama’s heart, but his policies and ideas—what he stands for. This is Rigg’s stance as shown above. Romans 12:2 is a great verse to describe saving faith:
“Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transfromed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.”
Does Obama have saving faith? Is it up to us to make this call? These are questions with delicate answers, if they can be answered at all.
So true..so true. If we (the Church) are called to be a “holy nation and a royal priesthood” you would think we would allow our standards of righteousness to align with God’s.
“Does Obama have saving faith?”
I don’t know. It’s all I can do to maintain my own relationship with God through Christ.
“Is it up to us to make this call? ”
No. Only God can judge the heart, I’ve maintained that position from the start. I will say again though…..if the fruit is bad, then it’s bad; and I’ll just stay away from it.
May the face of Almighty God shine upon you Jeff!
http://skunnydroppings.wordpress.com/2008/03/08/i-was-in-a-conversation-on/
I’ve also got a lot to say on this topic.
You can read my most recent post on God and conscience at:
http://riggword.wordpress.com/
The meat of my post is that we, and I mean Christians, like to define the Bible from our point of view instead of defining ourselves from God’s plan. Come over and read it when you all get a chance.
Interesting comments from everybody.
God Bless.
“If we (the Church) are called to be a “holy nation and a royal priesthood” you would think we would allow our standards of righteousness to align with God’s.”
But you are a chosen race, A royal preisthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.
We are not “called.” We are chosen. Being “called” implies that we must do external works. Is that to say believers shouldn’t do anything? Not at all! As we abide and have fellowship with Him, He works His righteousness through us.
Romans 8:9
Those who think they can do it on their own end up obsessed with measuring their own moral muscle but never get around to exercising it in real life. Those who trust God’s action in them find that God’s Spirit is in them-Living and Breathing God. Obsession with self in these matters is a dead end; attention to God leads us out into the open; into a spacious free life. Focusing on self is the opposite of focusing on God. The Message
I just realized I was on Skipper’s account.
Hey….can you read that verse again? I Peter 2:9?
“But you are a CHOSEN race, A royal preisthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has CALLED you out of darkness into His marvelous light.”
We are not “called.” We are chosen. Being “called” implies that we must do external works.
Again, you make my case for me. If He calls me out of darkness that
means I must step into the light…right? What we have here is a both/and thing happening. Not an either/or.
James 2:24
“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
What do you see here? It’s a both/and not either/or. Faith must be found in our works, just as works must be found in our faith.
James 2:26
“For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.”
“As we abide and have fellowship with Him, He works His righteousness through us.”
Could you please give me an example of what this looks like? Because you seem to say we don’t need external works and then say we do.
Wait…”He works His righteousness through us.” Of course it’s His righteousness, my righteousness is as filthy rags! The things I do, I do for love of Jesus and for people (as He commanded I do). I in no way think I can work my way to heaven. That is absurd! I know I’ve never said this, and I hope I’ve never implied this.
So really….what does it look like?
Something I needed to remind myself of today is it’s really hard to express and see what people are really saying on-line. I apologize for being presumptuous toward you.
I just posted something on you blog :-)
You asked, “Could you please give me an example of what this looks like? Because you seem to say we don’t need external works and then say we do.”
Bear with me.
Ok, I agree faith & works go hand in hand, but to know where I am coming from (and it’s hard to do on-line) but I came from a background of “works” and not realizing that as we abide in him, He works righteousness in us. You know how there are people that are just naturally good, they seem to be Lily White types all the time? Even though as believers we know that they are still sinners, but they do all these wonderful acts of service, but it’s not really done out of a pure heart or as God is moving. That’s what I am talking about.
James 2:24
“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
What do you see here? It’s a both/and not either/or. Faith must be found in our works, just as works must be found in our faith.
James 2:26
“For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.”
Yes, this is the Word, I agree.
“Must step into the light…right?” we don’t step into the light, we are in the light. It’s something He has done.
We are chosen and called out of darkness and we are in the light, He initiated that, we are in the light even on our bad days, it’s not something we have to strive at. Just like we are holy and forgiven despite ourselves. It’s hard to fathom.
I don’t know if you are interested but I am making some youtube videos that talk about what I am trying to convey about faith & works. I only have the intro part done right now, but maybe that way you can better understand where I am coming from. At least then you can decide if I am a nut or complete nut :-D
I need to go potty now…
Selena,
I do agree it’s harder to explain things online….but let me ask you something….when you said:
“You know how there are people that are just naturally good, they seem to be Lily White types all the time? Even though as believers we know that they are still sinners, but they do all these wonderful acts of service, but it’s not really done out of a pure heart or as God is moving.”
Aren’t you making a judgement on them as to their acts of service? And is that judgement made on your experience in that “works” background? So whereas you haven’t said whether or not they are “true Christians” you have judged their heart as wrongly motivated. Which would amount to the same thing….right?
I don’t really understand your comment as to, “we don’t step into the light, we are in the light. It’s something He’s done.”
I agree that He provides “the light”. That light is not something I can control. But if I am called out of darkness, that does mean I have to step OUT of the light to be OUT of the darkness. And if I want my relationship with Christ to continue to grow, I must move toward Him doing all He’s commanded, because if I don’t…I prove myself to be a liar and the truth is not in me.
Just some questions and some thoughts.
I read this and I’ll get back to it soon.
I will go ahead and say, I don’t think their are catagories of Christians. You are either a Christian or not, you either have the Spirit of God or you don’t. You are either saved or lost, so to me anyone who is a Christian is a True Christian.
In my example of the Lily White types, people that do acts of service but with selfish motives can be believers or unbelievers, does this make the believers any less “true” Christians? I don’t thinks so, we are all constantly growing in grace. I don’t know if this answers anything, but it’s all I have for tonight :-)
* There are
Bush, our pro-life, Republican president said, America was not ready for a law banning abortion.
America as a whole is never going to be ready, I don’t know what he/Bush is waiting for or any other Republican that’s been in office. It seems to me the Republicans are saying they are pro-life to make the conservatives happy, but it’s really just to win votes. It’s a lie. They need to back up what they are saying with their lips with actions. Shut up and do something.
I could tell people I am pro-life, but that doesn’t mean anything. Instead, Skipper and I have stood in our share of pro-life walks and rallies holding signs, we’ve prayed and encouraged pregnant moms to give the innocent babies a chance, donated clothes, etc. We’ve stayed out of the whole voting scene, it doesn’t seem like there is one righteous. It’s kind of like choosing the lesser of several evils.
People may not like the idea that we are not voting because as Christians we should vote Republican to support pro-life to “prove” we are pro-life and to get the “approval” of our brothers and sisters in Christ, because you have to have th appoval of other believers to be in the Cool Christian club. We’ve seen that voting for people that profess to be pro-life doesn’t really change anything. People are still getting abortions, it’s not being banned, nothing is truly being done - it’s all lip service.
So here is how we live our pro-life life to hopefully make a difference in a few innocent babies and mother’s lives. Instead of saying we ‘re pro-life, instead of voting for someone who delivers empty promises, that can’t back up what he says, we will let God work through us to encourage expecting mom’s on an individual basis. We will continue to donate clothes and actually DO something where we can see the fruit of our being pro-life come to fruition. We haven’t seen that fruit coming from our Christian, pro-life Republican Presidents. It’s true, we will know them by their fruit or the lack thereof.
Excellent points Selena. In general, Republicans are disappointing. Bush’s greatest legacy will be getting two conservatives on the Supreme Court. The two party system no longer works.
I have to say thanks for you and your husband’s work surrounding abortion. You are right about spreading God’s Word on an individual basis, talking to expectant mothers about abortion and the long lasting, negative side effects associated with them. The world can only change one heart at a time. I still cannot vote for a pro-choice candidate, but this is just me.
I don’t have much time , but I will say this…
Have they done all they can? No
Have they done anything? Yes
They were able to ban partial-birth abortion. The most heinous of all abortions (not to imply that the others aren’t heinous).
These dispicable acts weren’t even legal until 1973, so the wheels move slowly, in both directions.
We need prayer, we need individual hearts to change, but we also need the votes to continue this progression toward an abortion free America! (well I can dream can’t I ? and with God all things are possible!)
“They were able to ban partial-birth abortion. The most heinous of all abortions.”
Very true, and even with some Democrats happy about this ban!
What do you say in Spanish maricón or gay?
http://sinblancaporelmundo.wordpress.com/2008/03/12/de-maricones-y-de-gays/
……not Obama or Hillary…..
How is barack not a christian? This post begins with the author saying
“but his policies conflict with his faith. As a Christian, I cannot see anything appealing from Obama.”
Have you looked?
The Earth:
As christians we are called to care for creation. great site sums it all up here if you disagree. http://www.creationcare.org/resources/scripture.php
Barack has a dedicated Enviornmental policy that reflects christian morals.
Care for the Poor:
James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
Obama has dedicated himself to support the lowly. To protect families, to provide jobs to develop ways to care for the orphans and widows.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/poverty/
Ethics of Life:
He is pro-choice. But he also seeks to develop a level of CONSISTENT LIFE ETHICS.
Is abortion the only issue of life? NO!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistent_Life_Ethic
Which brings us to the war. and this is not the place to debate the ethics of the war. but Obama’s stance clearly reflects a christian view, maybe not the republicconservativechristian view, but it is a valid christian viewpoint.
There are many many more areas that reflect his faith.
do you want to know his stances, check here.
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaonFaith.pdf
I think most people are sheltered, disconnected and ignorant. They here a pastor, or read a forwarded email that says Obama is a muslim or hes not a christian and buy into it, instead of looking into it for themselves.
There was a neo-conservative (before there were neo-cons) Christian theologian in named Reinhold Niebuhr who wrote a book in 1933 (I think) called Moral Man, Immoral Society. His basic premise was that while individual people must act morally, it is impossible to expect governments to make moral choices in the same way that people do. This is not say that individuals in government should not act morally–if they do so, Niebuhr argued, government would be better off–but sometimes the interest of a nation is not the interest of an individual and the nation doesn’t have a collective soul. Individuals have one soul. Now, I am a Catholic and not a Protestant, and not conservative, but I thought a lot about Niebuhr. He was a great theologian. And his ideas come into play here.
America is a nation built on religious toleration, in other words on various religious beliefs that co-exist with one another. I think what should matter to us is whether any elected leader will do the right thing for the United States. If we try to measure up who is the biggest sinner 1) we are taking over God’s job and 2) we are not necessarily picking the qualities that will actually make a good national leader.
Example: JFK was a terrible adulterer. I dislike that. I think he was a decent leader of the country though, and his adultery did not affect that. Warren Harding was an adulterer and a bribe taker. His bribe taking made him a bad leader. Adultery suggests to me they do not value women much, so I may take that into account, but not as a sin; rather as a statement about political values and overall virtue.
If we are looking at Obama, we need to look at his decision-making skills, his patriotism, his experience, etc. As far as I know Obama never committed adultery. But I do know that Obama has associated himself in the corrupt word of Chicago politics, with Rezko and Blackwell.
Just my thoughts. As Christians in a pluralistic country, where there is no consensus on what it means to be Christian (some people say I am not because I am a Catholic), we need to look for values that can be shared across faiths and leadership abilities.
Hey i read this whole page and its very interesting to here what people have to say about Barack Obama and his Christianity. This is a great article on http://www.FaithAndAction.org written by Rev. Rob Schenck. You ALL should check it out :)
http://www.faithandaction.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display&feature_id=126
Thanks
-Claiborne
Your question “Should Christians Vote for Obama?”…is disturbing. I’ve spent almost 3 decades in service to the Lord as a Humanitarian Aid Relief Coordinator & Educator for First Responders. This put me into numerous nations and across four continents.
I was a staunch Republican ever since I was old enough to vote. I don’t mean Republican with only my vote, and finances but I was able to arrange my furloughs to actively campaign for Bush BOTH times. This is a major regret I have.
When I moved back home…it was to a nation that was hardly recognizable. Then VP Cheney says he’s not part of the Executive Branch of Gov’t…everyone that didn’t tow the Party line in the Justice Department is gone…numerous help programs have been gutted, billion dollar bailouts to unregulated companies. A war in Iraq that had absolutely nothing to do with 911. Anyone have an idea of exactly how much this war is costing? TAKE A LOOK! Not to mention the multitude of foreclosures, skyrocketing health care cost, $4+ a gallon gasoline, etc., etc., etc.
Remember when we were told we shouldn’t buy pharmaceuticals from Canada because they may not be safe? Yet, many of our medicines are made in China…anyone pay attention to all the recalls? Not to mention the toys or pet food, etc.
Have you heard of Halliburton or BlackWater? Do you know the meaning of ‘conflict of interest’. How about the USA going into Iraq and getting rid of their entire standing army. Ever wonder how these folks manage to feed their families. Before you say that I don’t understand…I was there for EIGHT MONTHS! Not military, but as a Humanitarian Aid Relief Coordinator in conjunction with two other agencies (both were from other Middle East Nations)
Anyone remember Bush manking that speech that as soon as Saddam was toppled…we’d be out of there and the US had no plans on building an embassy? Remember Bush standing on that ship announcing to the world the war had ended? How many have died since the “war had ended”? How many traumatic brain injuries to our men & women in uniform, since the “war has ended”?
Oh…then there’s Phil Gramm that says we’re a nation of whiners in the midst of a “mental” recession. This is outrageous…which is most likely why Mc Cain is distancing himself.
Ask yourself, are you better off now than you were 8 years ago? What about the folks that are still suffering here from Hurricane Katrina? What about all the wild fires in California? What about all the flooding and tornados that’s taken place right here in the Midwest. Well guess what? Our governor said we needed the National Guard…however, the number needed is NOT available.
Can you guess WHY they are not available? Large numbers of them have been deployed to both Afghanistan & Iraq.
Folk in my immediate circle of friends (ministry) have known me for 3 decades. My life has always been an open book…however…when I returned back to the USA permanently and saw all the drastic (negatiive) changes. I began to ask questions of those I trusted.
They all, without fail, let it be know that the present administration has fallen asleep at the wheel. Then when I said, I would no longer support the Republican Party…I got told I must “not be a true Christian” if I didn’t vote Republican. This let me see that they are controlled by what others (ministry) think, if they dare to do, say, or think differently than the way they’ve been told.
Two individuals asked me ’specific’ questions. Yet, when I began to answer one of them, he flew into a rage…which is the reason I began my own blog. I felt it safer to address him in writing, rather than face to face. Even his wife agreed with me on this. (And he’s a pastor!)
There are dozens of other reasons I fully support Senator Obama…what I’ve written to this point, has barely scratched the surface.
Michelle
http://michelle2005.wordpress.com